UE: What obstacles did you face or are you still facing?

Josh: I think that we are still constantly dealing with the limits of representation. In the comic book I think that’s something that I wrote about in Issue 20…. pretty sure I remember doing that. I think the thing I most learned, that had the biggest impact on the book, but also probably increased my doubt and fears to go back to the other question– was that we intellectualize that we are culturally different from other people. And I traveled a lot before doing this book. That’s what I was doing when all my friends were going to college. I was spending time in the Middle East and Central Asia and South America and Europe; I know what cultural differences are. But it wasn’t until I went to Africa with the intention of collecting date to create with based on that I really began to emotionally experience and understand how different we are culturally; Africa and the western mind. And it literally comes down to cognitively the way that we perceive the world in that there was no (thats when I began to realize) that there was no way I could write an intrinsically african book. And by the way, that’s where the creative decision to make Moses educated in the states came from was this realization that I was aboslutely incapable of writing somehting intriscially african.

My protagonist was going to have to be American. There was just no way I could breach my western mind. And htat was a celebatory moment for me as a world traveler; to finally have that really sync in, but it also had tremendous impact on the book as a whole I think and my approach to it.

UE: Another thing we’ve noticed is that you bring up the theme of brainwashing in many different ways . The children are made to kill by the adults, the soldier made to kill by some sort of government upperhand. In your opinion, do you see any differences inbetween these two kinds of brainwashing? Or are they intrinsically the same?

Josh: Well first of all, let me just state that you guys are the first people to ever mention that in an interview, that parallel and I really really appreciate that because that’s something my editor and I talk about a lot. So that’s awesome. Secondly, to answer the question- do I see any differences in it? The brainwashing that goes on with Moses is essentially a fictional kind of brainwashing. It’s like a metaphor for how we live in our culturally isolated society of North America. And it’s an extreme metaphor. I do not believe that currently the CIA has people running around–

UE: I wasnt suggesting that, for the record. (laughter)

Josh: Of course. On the hand other hand, obviously you can see where I’m going with this it’s a very real brainwashing that’s occuring in East Africa and also in West Africa and on the eastern coast of africa. One uses drugs…the area we’re discussing uses religion. However, I do think it is relevant and the reason why me and my editor discuss it so much is that I do think we are all, one degree or another, brainwashed by culture and media and family. I think that the book indirectly is about that. In a lot of ways, its about the things that make us culturally different and the things that make us universally human. Hopefully its about the latter more than the former. That’s my ultimate attempt is to discuss what’s universally human.

But part of that, is being brainwashed; cognitively appropriated into culture one way or another. Either by a crazy meniachal ego-driven bastard like Joseph Kony or by a crazy meniachal ego-driven culture like North American culture, ya know.. but yes, absolutely there are purposeful parallels in the narrative about that.

UE: So your plot line is trying to resolve this question; whether or not this abuse can be overcome? Like that ritual Paul went through for cleansing his soul, just as did Moses. Of course, we know Moses didn’t stay on the path but for Paul, he may have. Commentary on these cultural differences?

Josh: Exactly. Like every other quesiton we raise in this book, the answer is not cut and dry. The answer is there is people who cannot and there are people who can. And that is the beauty and the diversity of humanity and I really hoped that the book is perceived by people as a humanist book, despite all of it’s violence.

I’m saying right here and now officially, because you’ll never see it in the book; Paul does stay on the straight and narrow path. It does work for him. But it’s interesting; why does this ritual that is essentially a superstition, why does it work for Paul? Because he long ago already culturally appropriated into the Acholi mind-set. And he’s going to be a really interesting Acholi when he grows up. He’ll probably have less of a faith in religion and culture. Yet he escapes from the darkest aspects of what’s been opposed upon him. He’s culturally Acholi and this ritual worked for him because he believes in it. It’s an amazing moment for him. And to do it with this weird antagonistic paternal character (Moses) who is the only person… Moses who has wounded him and has berated him and driven him and pushed him away again and again. But Moses is the only person he’s felt safe around. He’s the only person who didn’t try to poison corrupt or change him. Moses is the one who looked after him so to have this soulfood moment, predominately Acholi experience,

For Moses it doesn’t really mean a lot. He wants it to work, wants it to be different, but he’s not culturally Acholi and he cannot invest in it the way Paul does.

This book is about people breaking out of their programming and being something greater and finding the universal behind these cultural programs. And when the book’s over, it’s going to very much complicate your view of who Moses was and as; but also complicate your view of who the Unknown Soldier is, and your view of the programming and what it’s about. And make the discussion we’re having right now a lot more complicated.

UE: So we’ll look forward to being confused?

UE: Would you view this at all as an existential sequel to the mid-90s series written by Garth Enice?

Josh: Well we’re definitlely in continuity. There are some creative decisions that Garth made that we’re definitely riffing on. And that’s about as far as I would go. I don’t want to say too much because we’re working on the last thing now, and reveal essentially all of the DNA of our series. But we’re call and responding to that Enice series. An existential sequel gives us a lot of heft, so I don’t know if I’d go that far.

UE: Curiosity question: the toy guns. Why? I mean, it makes psychological sense but… something felt ‘off’. Was it just me?

Josh: You’re not the first person to bring this up, actually. There was a wave of comments on the Standard (Attrition)Nutrition board when I was active when that issue came out. People saw it as straining believablity but the truth of the matter is, that’s one of the few things I actually witnessed. It’s one of the most real things in the book. And in general, Paul’s experience at the school for war affected children…those experience are in book because I saw this when I spent several days visiting the school outside of Gulu town. That is legitimately a form of therapy that they use with these kids. You can find photographs of the actual kids doing this on the internet. I totally understand why it seems fucked up.

I was extremely impressed with the human beings- the case workers, who work with these kids to resocialize them. The schools for war affected youth in that region are complicated places. To some kids they are a prison, to others they are a way to a better life. Like everything else in this book, it’s about how complicated we are as people so some of these kids embrace the path of violence, some of them are terrified by it, some are absoultely repulosed by the actions they’ve taken in their lives.

I cannot think of a more stressful psychological position for someone to be in when working with these kids. Having said that, it has become the dominant theory in psychology to face fears. I am assuming that’s why they do this; for re-socialation. You face it, you don’t run from it or keep it submerged. You drag it up to the surface. And it does fuck with these kids. But that’s the point. Hopefully over time, see that they are either past it or capable of overcoming them.

Also, they take the guns away after the exercise– let me stress that. From what I observed, anyway. It also lets the pyschologists observe them. You get a different read from each of these kids which helps them see where they’re at in their therapy.

Additionally, it helps them see what these kids went through. The bush is a nebulus place and because they’re so young and fucked up by these experiences, when they come out it’s really hard to get at the truth of what’s going on out there.

Paul doesn’t open up to anyone until he tells Moses his story. And that’s not unusual, for them to be mute or silent and not address their issues. And through action, you see what they really were involved in.

Back at the states at a comic convention, I had this amazing conversation when someone came up to me and said he had been working with war affected youth on the west african coast. Which is a totally different region, people, ethnic group…different behavioral patterns. There’s a whole different appraoch that these physcologists would take as opposed to psychologists in the west. Which took me back to my realization that we are so cognitively different; culture creates cognitive skicsms. There are cultural specifics that you have to deal with.

On a side note, this book has allowed me to have the most amazing conversations with people. That’s definitely a gift.

UE: One last question. In regards to Moses as the pacificist and believing that saving Uganda must come from Uganda… who were you channeling there?

Josh: That’s actually a dominent concept right now in the African power struggle. Black power in Africa means something entirely different than it means here in the states. Meaning, in Africa it’s Africans saving Africa. It’s an argument that resonates very strongly with me.